2:30 3:30 – what you can do to push for progressive patriotism
Rachel: what to do in the next 6 months to move forward the ideals we’ve all been talking about.
Lots of discussion about what folks want to do when they get home
Jon: bring back Kent Jones – NOW!
Mark: get cluster a bunch of like-minded people ($100 apiece, 10 people) give to a local candidate…
Sen. JFK – how do I know what the people of MA want? Real grass roots letters, not uniform-type – work.
Jon: what are you doing on election day? Call your local Dem party and get involved. Also, build candidates at the local level. Identify some bright 30-somethings and suggest they become a candidate. Wellstone action, DFA run clinics on how to be a candidate, how to be a campaign mgr, etc. By their mid-40s, they’re running for Congress.
Aldus Tyler who gets progressive radio stay on the air has sessions in different places to show .
We’re working on “franchising” radio stations. Then we’re not at the whim of radio stations who cut us off at a whim.
Randi: I’ve eaten too much. I love you so much. And I’ve learned so much from you. There’s a radiation expert here who is teaching me about why nuclear is so bad. A Princeton educated economist is here.. So many incredible people here. Debbie says sign up to list-servs of your candidates. You’ll get the talking points you need to talk to Republicans; we need the youth vote, so we need to participate in voter registration for 18-24 yr olds. Volunteer in local Dem office. Anything we can do down-ticket from the Presidential, do it. You can address all the Karl Rovian bullshit. County and state conventions – have pre-convention forums to write resolutions for the platform votes. If enough people come out and vote they cannot steal the election from us.
Randi: think ahead. Know what they’re going to do, know what you’re going to do.
Rachel: The down-ticket story is VERY important. Bill Clinton didn’t pay attention to this and the lower end of the party lost a lot of institutional strength. This work remains to be done. Howard Dean has been great with his 50-state strategy. So: 1. Run for office or find someone who will. 2. Participate in the down-ticket races. Find time, even if you are already working at the top level. Even local city council level. You can make all the difference in the local races. Because of racism and/or sexism polls showed that down-ticket we don’t do so well (compared to Edwards) . So we need to work very hard on the down-ticket races.
Randi: Be an election judge. A Poll Worker. Stay involved in everything that’s going on right up to the election and until the last vote is counted. Stay in it to win it. But don’t get crazy. Keep it simple.
Lionel: You’re like me!!!! I feel the connection! We’ve been scared. Like there are only 2 things you never talk about – religion and politics – what else is there?? In the 60s people like us were pissed off. Then we got complacent and the angry white men were pissed off (Rush Limbaugh). Now WE’RE pissed off again. Yeah! On a subterranean level - talk to your Conservative friends. Lose the labels. Start asking questions like this: Joe, say you lost your job, got sick, you don’t want the gov’t to pay for you, right? And are you ok with your kid going off to Iraq, right? Don’t talk labels. When they agree with you then you can say “by the way, you’re a progressive”.
Thom: Despair is not an option. We have to get active. Voting is not enough. Just voting is not enough. Get out there and participate. Amen to what’s aready been said. “Tag, YOU’RE IT!”
Randi: Kumbayah. :-)
Carolyn from MoveOn.Org: Local groups from MoveOn do local political stuff. March 19th – nationwide activism on the anniversary of the occupation of Iraq. Operation Democracy (www.operationdemocracy.org) will help you find or create a group local to you.
Rachel: Biggest concern is stolen elections. Go to www.blackboxvoting.org
Friday, February 29, 2008
1:30-2:30 pm – Closing session: What Makes a Good Talk Radio show?
1:30-2:30 pm – Closing session: What Makes a Good Talk Radio show? You Tell Us? Panelists: Randi, Rachel, Lionel, Thom, Jon, and Marc.
First commentator – diehard Republican mom of an AA listener has finally said she can’t take it anymore (Republicans).
Next: Thanks, Thom for teaching us how to argue with our Republican friends. Rachel, please take calls. Jon, it’s great that you’re in the community.
Next: from Tom DeLay territory. Thanks, Mark. But I hate Ed Schultz on XM. Mark replies – Ed is not AA.
Thom: support our advertisers but when you talk to potential advertisers don’t talk as if we’re a charity. We deliver customers. Our listeners are consumers who support our advertisers.
Next: Richard from New Zealand asked why there aren’t more young people here? Answer $$$. How about a scholarship fund to fund younger participation. Email briannospam@stockmar.com – remove the letters n-o-s-p-a-m in that address.
Mark – maybe contests for each show.
Next: Rachel, we want Kent Jones NOW!!
Next: list the advertisers on the station websites.
Next : certain stations repeat shows and therefore the late night stuff is never heard by some listeners.
Lionel – streaming at home – no 7 second delay. ;-)
Next: list of books on AA website. Thom and Jon already have these thinks.
Next: Randi, I drive around Denver laughing my ass off. I learn so much and I’m still laughing.
Next: Firesign theatre never on AA yet. AA, please change the mindsets on Iraq. Lionel says they will be on his show.
Next: 2 requests: you are teachers and you need to teach the members of Congress what you are doing. Thom: if you want your member of Congress to know something, call your representative. Second: Listen to each other’s gems.
Next: advertisers need to have more humor in their commercials.
Next: I like that we can trust what you say. You tell the truth.
First commentator – diehard Republican mom of an AA listener has finally said she can’t take it anymore (Republicans).
Next: Thanks, Thom for teaching us how to argue with our Republican friends. Rachel, please take calls. Jon, it’s great that you’re in the community.
Next: from Tom DeLay territory. Thanks, Mark. But I hate Ed Schultz on XM. Mark replies – Ed is not AA.
Thom: support our advertisers but when you talk to potential advertisers don’t talk as if we’re a charity. We deliver customers. Our listeners are consumers who support our advertisers.
Next: Richard from New Zealand asked why there aren’t more young people here? Answer $$$. How about a scholarship fund to fund younger participation. Email briannospam@stockmar.com – remove the letters n-o-s-p-a-m in that address.
Mark – maybe contests for each show.
Next: Rachel, we want Kent Jones NOW!!
Next: list the advertisers on the station websites.
Next : certain stations repeat shows and therefore the late night stuff is never heard by some listeners.
Lionel – streaming at home – no 7 second delay. ;-)
Next: list of books on AA website. Thom and Jon already have these thinks.
Next: Randi, I drive around Denver laughing my ass off. I learn so much and I’m still laughing.
Next: Firesign theatre never on AA yet. AA, please change the mindsets on Iraq. Lionel says they will be on his show.
Next: 2 requests: you are teachers and you need to teach the members of Congress what you are doing. Thom: if you want your member of Congress to know something, call your representative. Second: Listen to each other’s gems.
Next: advertisers need to have more humor in their commercials.
Next: I like that we can trust what you say. You tell the truth.
Thursday, February 28, 2008
5:30 – 6:30 – Topic: Our Dysfunctional Financial and Health Care Systems.
5:30 – 6:30 – Topic: Our Dysfunctional Financial and Health Care Systems. Panelists: Marc Sussman and Paul Krugman
Marc
Bankruptcy law was engineered by the credit card companies. That says it all. People getting hurt are those with no access to resources. Inner city has payday loans, etc. Seed money for businesses is missing.
Do you know what your rights are? Do you know what your power is as an owner of stock and/or mutual funds? You can vote. The SEC is proposing to limit the rights of shareholders to bring actions against the boards of directors of companies. SEC favors owners, not shareholders. Socially responsible funds advocate for you, so that’s available.
We have an education system of a third world country. Only a third of American students will go to college. Easing regulations for companies plus tightening of credit for student loans. What are our priorities?
No affordable housing in NYC. Places to live are owned by corporations, foreigners. A perfect storm is brewing.
Paul
Economics of health care are simple. It’s the politics that are hard. If you ask “should everyone have health insurance? That’s easy. It’s in the details.
What value are insurance companies adding? Nothing. They make money by collecting premiums and not paying for health care. The business model is decide who needs treatment and deny them.
“They” say Americans wouldn’t accept a single payer system – but they ignore Medicare. Already the public health care systems pay more than the private systems. 45% of costs are paid by gov’t, 35% by private companies.
Insurance companies spend a lot of money NOT paying for services. Medicare is the most efficient – 2 3% overhead. For-profit – 14% overhead. Even as much as 25%.
Insurance Co and big Pharma influence the politics of it.
They foster fear – fear of the unknown. Gov’t insurance won’t be as good as private. Fear mongering is VERY effective.
French care is the best in the world. Canadian is good too. British is actually socialized medicine. There are waits for elective surgery. System is run by doctors and they prioritize. So when politicians say here’s a lot of money, cut the wait, the drs say “let’s use it to pay for other things”.
We have single payer – Medicare –
Socialized medicine – VA system.
So why not just run on Medicare for all? Answer: fear. It will take a long time to build consensus on this. It needs to be transitional. Subsidies to poor people. All insurance companies MUST offer insurance to everyone who wants it. Must avoid free-riding. (Make it mandatory). If it’s optional, young, healthy people want to stay out of the system – until they need it.
Insurance companies will not be fooled. This will eventually put them out of business.
Dems – John Edwards brought it into the political domain a realistic plan, one that might actually happen. Clinton eventually adopted Edwards’ plan. Obama’s plan is “punted” on one piece – it’s not mandatory. Why? Political fear. Then he ran “Harry and Louise”-like commercials against Hillary, and Krugman thinks an Obama presidency will not foster single-payer.
Every other advanced country manages to pay for universal health care at less cost and just as high-quality health care.
Questions – we have long waits for health care now – one person here had to wait 6 months for surgery. Canada – hip replacement does take longer. Here, who pays for hip replacement – Medicare!
Woman dr here moved from US to Canada so has a great perspective. Waits are a myth in Canada. You DO get to pick your own doctor.
Marc
Bankruptcy law was engineered by the credit card companies. That says it all. People getting hurt are those with no access to resources. Inner city has payday loans, etc. Seed money for businesses is missing.
Do you know what your rights are? Do you know what your power is as an owner of stock and/or mutual funds? You can vote. The SEC is proposing to limit the rights of shareholders to bring actions against the boards of directors of companies. SEC favors owners, not shareholders. Socially responsible funds advocate for you, so that’s available.
We have an education system of a third world country. Only a third of American students will go to college. Easing regulations for companies plus tightening of credit for student loans. What are our priorities?
No affordable housing in NYC. Places to live are owned by corporations, foreigners. A perfect storm is brewing.
Paul
Economics of health care are simple. It’s the politics that are hard. If you ask “should everyone have health insurance? That’s easy. It’s in the details.
What value are insurance companies adding? Nothing. They make money by collecting premiums and not paying for health care. The business model is decide who needs treatment and deny them.
“They” say Americans wouldn’t accept a single payer system – but they ignore Medicare. Already the public health care systems pay more than the private systems. 45% of costs are paid by gov’t, 35% by private companies.
Insurance companies spend a lot of money NOT paying for services. Medicare is the most efficient – 2 3% overhead. For-profit – 14% overhead. Even as much as 25%.
Insurance Co and big Pharma influence the politics of it.
They foster fear – fear of the unknown. Gov’t insurance won’t be as good as private. Fear mongering is VERY effective.
French care is the best in the world. Canadian is good too. British is actually socialized medicine. There are waits for elective surgery. System is run by doctors and they prioritize. So when politicians say here’s a lot of money, cut the wait, the drs say “let’s use it to pay for other things”.
We have single payer – Medicare –
Socialized medicine – VA system.
So why not just run on Medicare for all? Answer: fear. It will take a long time to build consensus on this. It needs to be transitional. Subsidies to poor people. All insurance companies MUST offer insurance to everyone who wants it. Must avoid free-riding. (Make it mandatory). If it’s optional, young, healthy people want to stay out of the system – until they need it.
Insurance companies will not be fooled. This will eventually put them out of business.
Dems – John Edwards brought it into the political domain a realistic plan, one that might actually happen. Clinton eventually adopted Edwards’ plan. Obama’s plan is “punted” on one piece – it’s not mandatory. Why? Political fear. Then he ran “Harry and Louise”-like commercials against Hillary, and Krugman thinks an Obama presidency will not foster single-payer.
Every other advanced country manages to pay for universal health care at less cost and just as high-quality health care.
Questions – we have long waits for health care now – one person here had to wait 6 months for surgery. Canada – hip replacement does take longer. Here, who pays for hip replacement – Medicare!
Woman dr here moved from US to Canada so has a great perspective. Waits are a myth in Canada. You DO get to pick your own doctor.
Topic: How to Beat John McCain – A Strategy Session.
4:00-5:15pm Topic: How to Beat John McCain – A Strategy Session. Panelists: Rachel with Thom, Lionel.
I decided not to post the specifics about this session, although I took lots of notes. We had some great ideas but I didn’t want our possibly very effective strategy ideas to be seen by anyone who wants to help McCain get elected. :-)
I decided not to post the specifics about this session, although I took lots of notes. We had some great ideas but I didn’t want our possibly very effective strategy ideas to be seen by anyone who wants to help McCain get elected. :-)
Feb 28th Topic: The Bush Economy and the Middle Class
9:00-11:30 am – Panel: Paul Krugman with Thom Hartmann and Marc Sussman
Topic: The Bush Economy and the Middle Class
Intro – Bush’s policies are a form of looting.
Paul Krugman
What people usually do is contract Bush v Clinton years. The best years of Bush are worse than the worst years of the Clinton years… But this is an unfair comparison – to Bush. We’ve forgotten what an economy that’s good for the middle class looks like. It hasn’t been good for the past 30 years.
Politics managed to change the direction. (note: Read his latest book, Concience of a Liberal).
Tax rates have changed – bad for the middle class. Eating away of the social services, tho not as much as the right wanted.
Conclusion I’ve come to – more subtle things – shift in the balance of power. FDR in reverse. Example – enforcement of labor laws , or lack thereof. NLRB ruled supervisors can’t unionize. Define supervisor? Anyone who ever gives direction to anyone else. (Yikes!) Removal of informal constraints from paying CEOs 1000x what their workers get.
Shift of power already began before Reagan took office. Has led to severe polarization. Result we’re more productive and rich than in 1973 but it’s arguable that the middle class is better off.
Middle class has consistently done worse under Republicans than Democrats. Even under Carter. Bush economy has one feature that is politically gratifying. Underlying bad news will not be matched by a last minute recovery (which has worked for Republicans in the past)
Two worst economies in past history were both under men named Bush.
Thom
News today- Bernake signaled his readiness to bolster the economy with cheaper money. But top priority is fighting recession. Thom thinks their making it worse and in January the next President will have a bad mess to deal this.
Paul says he would be doing what Bernanke is doing except I would do something about the banking mess. What has everyone scared is the specter of Japan – deflation. They had overblown real estate, etc. Turned into a 10 year recession. Many say this could have been avoided. As for inflation – the Fed story, which is probably right – oil prices high, food prices high, etc. China becoming a larger consumer nation. There is no wage in the wage-price spiral. So inflation is a huge blip.
So Thom’s theory may or may not be true. He’s reasonably sure that Bernanke is sincere. Financial system lost its bearings. In 1931 terrible banking crisis. New deal solved it by new regulation. Clinton pulled the plug on glass ceiling. Now, we’ve had hedge funds, etc… markets did an end run around regulations. We need to fix this. Only action right now is coming from state officials – Andrew Cuomo and Elliot Spitzer in NY, for example.
Back to Paul – starting in the 70s, picking up steam in the 80s, repudiation of the New Deal (Limbaugh – “Roosevelt is dead!”). Massive deregulation, insane trade policies, war on labor.. I call this administration a “kleptocracy”. Destruction of fundamentals were well under way before Clinton, but he made things worse with things like NAFTA. People are waking up to this.
Marc
We don’t see what the real problem. We need to look at money in a different way. Introduced Dr. Lynn Twist. Life is like a game of musical chairs. There aren’t enough chairs for all of us. Captains of industry understand this. We have 2 titans – Bill Gates and Warren Buffet – see this. But Gates needs to fix Microsoft and Buffet invests in China and says it’s not his job to tell China what to do.
The sub-prime mortgage crisis where banks are negotiating with the brokers and not the home-owners. Brokers insisted on banks lending money to people who couldn’t afford the mortgages as presented.. This is awful.
Letter coming with your “stimulus” money “Here’s your money, just want you to know we have no idea what we’re doing with your money or how to fix the problem”. (Mark’s idea of what the letter will look like).
Questions
Are we going to end up with razor wire around wealthy properties…?
Paul answers - it’s possible that things will get really catastrophic. What’s happening – every week some unknown market implodes. So we have no way of knowing what’s next. No regulation, no controls. It’s falling apart. So it’s a race to see if new “fixes” can prevent a depression and have “only” a recession. But it will last a long time. Dirty little secret about the Fed, it’s about housing. And there’s nothing they can do about housing right now, so it’s hard to engineer a recovery.
Social Security – Krugman: has a dedicated tax. It’s in very good shape in spite of pessimistic projections. The crisis is an invention of people who want to dismantle it. What drives them is the projected cost of health care in Medicare. That’s not a SS problem, it’s a health care issue. If we solve that, SS projections go away. Krugman is worried about private debt. There is something like $7b of wealth that is in the housing market that will go away because of debt. People will walk away from their houses. Will cause a big problem (more) in banks.
Value of the dollar – impact of lowered value? Thom – value of currency has to do with variety of perceptions. When Reagan came in we were the largest creditor and exporter of finished goods – now we’re the largest debtor, largest importer of goods, etc. Paul: Europe is a creditable alternative now. Technological level basically the same as ours, good financial markets, better health care system. Now Euros are a good place to put investments. In the short term, fall in the dollar is a good thing. Exports are rising, US products are looking more attractive worldwide. We also have one good piece of luck – our foreign debts are in dollars, so when the dollar falls, our debt doesn’t go up (as it did in Argentina when their debt in dollars with the decline of the Argentinean peso tripled their debt).
What about the debt incurred in Iraq? Krugman– relative to the economy, Iraq is running about half of what VietNam was. So – is $10B enough to cripple the economy? No. If you ask what we could be doing with that money, it’s very different. But this isn’t a realistic alternative right now, under Bush.
Unions – in airlines – SW Airlines most profitable and strongest unions. Krugman: 1969 GM largest company, strongest union, salary ~$25,000. Today – Wal-Mart largest company. Best salary ~$18,000.
When to get out of the market? How to invest? Marc – If you have the time, take the long term view -invest in companies that are going to help solve the problems – agriculture, energy solutions, etc. Pay attention to what’s in your mutual funds.
If we had to fight a war today, we couldn’t because we no longer have the manufacturing to support it. So if we truly had a security crisis, where are the resources? Krugman: We’re capable of doing incredible things if we have the will. I don’t agree with the doomsayers. These look like problems because we don’t have the leadership.
Could US bail on its retirement benefits to govt employees? Krugman: Governments do go bankrupt, but we’re more likely to default on debt to China before pension obligations. But in the end we’ll honor the obligations. Progressive revolution will make it happen. A new New Deal. Thom: the economy is here to serve us, not the other way around. Marc – we’re going to have to give up the unfair treatment of capital gains vs wages.
The stimulus package – purpose? Thom: nice to help bail out banks because people will use it to pay down debt. Krugman: purpose, from the point of view of Congress, is aboveboard. Housing is collapsing, consumer spending is decreasing. It’s to buy time til other things can be figured out. It’s a lousy plan, little bang for the buck. Things that would have been helpful – increased unemployment benefits, etc, but Bush would have rejected all that. There will be no change until change of administration. Marc: Wall Street said “it’s not nearly enough”.
Greatest confidence Obama and Clinton wrt the economy?
Marc: I believe Obama will be the next president. My greatest confidence is that he is less connected to corporate America than anyone else. I worry about the people he will surround himself with people who may or may not have the courage to do what is necessary. Clinton – with Bill, would be a very strong leader. Marc questions Bill’s moral fiber.
Thom: Good that Hillary is distancing herself from some of the economic policies of Bill. Obama – he ran in Illinois on single-payer but doesn’t now. Edwards had the best plan.
Paul: both candidates have very good economic advice. Hillary also knows financial economic stuff very well. Unclear from Obama. On health care: Hillary’s plan IS the Edwards plan. Goal from both: Medicare for all. Obama has shown a tendency to weaken or soften the progressive plan. Stimulus – Clinton’s plan looked more like New Deal, Obama’s was rebates. For 35 years right-wing “free market” has dominated. I’m less optimistic than I was 6 months ago.
what a fabulous session!
Topic: The Bush Economy and the Middle Class
Intro – Bush’s policies are a form of looting.
Paul Krugman
What people usually do is contract Bush v Clinton years. The best years of Bush are worse than the worst years of the Clinton years… But this is an unfair comparison – to Bush. We’ve forgotten what an economy that’s good for the middle class looks like. It hasn’t been good for the past 30 years.
Politics managed to change the direction. (note: Read his latest book, Concience of a Liberal).
Tax rates have changed – bad for the middle class. Eating away of the social services, tho not as much as the right wanted.
Conclusion I’ve come to – more subtle things – shift in the balance of power. FDR in reverse. Example – enforcement of labor laws , or lack thereof. NLRB ruled supervisors can’t unionize. Define supervisor? Anyone who ever gives direction to anyone else. (Yikes!) Removal of informal constraints from paying CEOs 1000x what their workers get.
Shift of power already began before Reagan took office. Has led to severe polarization. Result we’re more productive and rich than in 1973 but it’s arguable that the middle class is better off.
Middle class has consistently done worse under Republicans than Democrats. Even under Carter. Bush economy has one feature that is politically gratifying. Underlying bad news will not be matched by a last minute recovery (which has worked for Republicans in the past)
Two worst economies in past history were both under men named Bush.
Thom
News today- Bernake signaled his readiness to bolster the economy with cheaper money. But top priority is fighting recession. Thom thinks their making it worse and in January the next President will have a bad mess to deal this.
Paul says he would be doing what Bernanke is doing except I would do something about the banking mess. What has everyone scared is the specter of Japan – deflation. They had overblown real estate, etc. Turned into a 10 year recession. Many say this could have been avoided. As for inflation – the Fed story, which is probably right – oil prices high, food prices high, etc. China becoming a larger consumer nation. There is no wage in the wage-price spiral. So inflation is a huge blip.
So Thom’s theory may or may not be true. He’s reasonably sure that Bernanke is sincere. Financial system lost its bearings. In 1931 terrible banking crisis. New deal solved it by new regulation. Clinton pulled the plug on glass ceiling. Now, we’ve had hedge funds, etc… markets did an end run around regulations. We need to fix this. Only action right now is coming from state officials – Andrew Cuomo and Elliot Spitzer in NY, for example.
Back to Paul – starting in the 70s, picking up steam in the 80s, repudiation of the New Deal (Limbaugh – “Roosevelt is dead!”). Massive deregulation, insane trade policies, war on labor.. I call this administration a “kleptocracy”. Destruction of fundamentals were well under way before Clinton, but he made things worse with things like NAFTA. People are waking up to this.
Marc
We don’t see what the real problem. We need to look at money in a different way. Introduced Dr. Lynn Twist. Life is like a game of musical chairs. There aren’t enough chairs for all of us. Captains of industry understand this. We have 2 titans – Bill Gates and Warren Buffet – see this. But Gates needs to fix Microsoft and Buffet invests in China and says it’s not his job to tell China what to do.
The sub-prime mortgage crisis where banks are negotiating with the brokers and not the home-owners. Brokers insisted on banks lending money to people who couldn’t afford the mortgages as presented.. This is awful.
Letter coming with your “stimulus” money “Here’s your money, just want you to know we have no idea what we’re doing with your money or how to fix the problem”. (Mark’s idea of what the letter will look like).
Questions
Are we going to end up with razor wire around wealthy properties…?
Paul answers - it’s possible that things will get really catastrophic. What’s happening – every week some unknown market implodes. So we have no way of knowing what’s next. No regulation, no controls. It’s falling apart. So it’s a race to see if new “fixes” can prevent a depression and have “only” a recession. But it will last a long time. Dirty little secret about the Fed, it’s about housing. And there’s nothing they can do about housing right now, so it’s hard to engineer a recovery.
Social Security – Krugman: has a dedicated tax. It’s in very good shape in spite of pessimistic projections. The crisis is an invention of people who want to dismantle it. What drives them is the projected cost of health care in Medicare. That’s not a SS problem, it’s a health care issue. If we solve that, SS projections go away. Krugman is worried about private debt. There is something like $7b of wealth that is in the housing market that will go away because of debt. People will walk away from their houses. Will cause a big problem (more) in banks.
Value of the dollar – impact of lowered value? Thom – value of currency has to do with variety of perceptions. When Reagan came in we were the largest creditor and exporter of finished goods – now we’re the largest debtor, largest importer of goods, etc. Paul: Europe is a creditable alternative now. Technological level basically the same as ours, good financial markets, better health care system. Now Euros are a good place to put investments. In the short term, fall in the dollar is a good thing. Exports are rising, US products are looking more attractive worldwide. We also have one good piece of luck – our foreign debts are in dollars, so when the dollar falls, our debt doesn’t go up (as it did in Argentina when their debt in dollars with the decline of the Argentinean peso tripled their debt).
What about the debt incurred in Iraq? Krugman– relative to the economy, Iraq is running about half of what VietNam was. So – is $10B enough to cripple the economy? No. If you ask what we could be doing with that money, it’s very different. But this isn’t a realistic alternative right now, under Bush.
Unions – in airlines – SW Airlines most profitable and strongest unions. Krugman: 1969 GM largest company, strongest union, salary ~$25,000. Today – Wal-Mart largest company. Best salary ~$18,000.
When to get out of the market? How to invest? Marc – If you have the time, take the long term view -invest in companies that are going to help solve the problems – agriculture, energy solutions, etc. Pay attention to what’s in your mutual funds.
If we had to fight a war today, we couldn’t because we no longer have the manufacturing to support it. So if we truly had a security crisis, where are the resources? Krugman: We’re capable of doing incredible things if we have the will. I don’t agree with the doomsayers. These look like problems because we don’t have the leadership.
Could US bail on its retirement benefits to govt employees? Krugman: Governments do go bankrupt, but we’re more likely to default on debt to China before pension obligations. But in the end we’ll honor the obligations. Progressive revolution will make it happen. A new New Deal. Thom: the economy is here to serve us, not the other way around. Marc – we’re going to have to give up the unfair treatment of capital gains vs wages.
The stimulus package – purpose? Thom: nice to help bail out banks because people will use it to pay down debt. Krugman: purpose, from the point of view of Congress, is aboveboard. Housing is collapsing, consumer spending is decreasing. It’s to buy time til other things can be figured out. It’s a lousy plan, little bang for the buck. Things that would have been helpful – increased unemployment benefits, etc, but Bush would have rejected all that. There will be no change until change of administration. Marc: Wall Street said “it’s not nearly enough”.
Greatest confidence Obama and Clinton wrt the economy?
Marc: I believe Obama will be the next president. My greatest confidence is that he is less connected to corporate America than anyone else. I worry about the people he will surround himself with people who may or may not have the courage to do what is necessary. Clinton – with Bill, would be a very strong leader. Marc questions Bill’s moral fiber.
Thom: Good that Hillary is distancing herself from some of the economic policies of Bill. Obama – he ran in Illinois on single-payer but doesn’t now. Edwards had the best plan.
Paul: both candidates have very good economic advice. Hillary also knows financial economic stuff very well. Unclear from Obama. On health care: Hillary’s plan IS the Edwards plan. Goal from both: Medicare for all. Obama has shown a tendency to weaken or soften the progressive plan. Stimulus – Clinton’s plan looked more like New Deal, Obama’s was rebates. For 35 years right-wing “free market” has dominated. I’m less optimistic than I was 6 months ago.
what a fabulous session!
The Crow's Nest
The schedule has included informal gathering of the AA crowd every night at 10:00pm at the Crow’s Nest Bar. Tonight was the first night I went and it was a blast. Randi, Jon Elliot, Mark and Rachel were all there to mingle with their admirers. And I mean admirers! Walking past a couch area I saw a seated Rachel with 3 grown men bowing down to her – literally down on their knees, arms up over their heads, swooping down to the floor. Hilarious!
It's so great to be able to pick their brains!
Thom Hartmann and Paul Krugman have also arrived, although I suspect they were pretty tired getting to Puerto Vallarta to meet the ship. Rachel mentioned a very long journey to get here, too. But we are glad to have them aboard.
It's so great to be able to pick their brains!
Thom Hartmann and Paul Krugman have also arrived, although I suspect they were pretty tired getting to Puerto Vallarta to meet the ship. Rachel mentioned a very long journey to get here, too. But we are glad to have them aboard.
Wednesday, February 27, 2008
Watching the debates
Rachel Maddow managed to get a copy of the MSNBC debates onto a DVD and brought it with her for us to watch together.
Lots of guffaws and sighs as people registered their displeasure – with Russert most of all, then sometimes with the candidates. We didn’t take a straw poll but most of the people who managed to express an opinion thought it was a draw.There was a lot of unhappiness with the choice of questions. What are these guys thinking? What are they trying to accomplish with their stupidity. Someone complained that it was supposed to be a debate between the candidates, not with Russert!
Since only half the crowd was able to squeeze into the smaller room, the debate will be shown again Thursday evening with additional discussion.
One picture added from the debate discussion.
one more photo added
Lots of guffaws and sighs as people registered their displeasure – with Russert most of all, then sometimes with the candidates. We didn’t take a straw poll but most of the people who managed to express an opinion thought it was a draw.There was a lot of unhappiness with the choice of questions. What are these guys thinking? What are they trying to accomplish with their stupidity. Someone complained that it was supposed to be a debate between the candidates, not with Russert!
Since only half the crowd was able to squeeze into the smaller room, the debate will be shown again Thursday evening with additional discussion.
One picture added from the debate discussion.
one more photo added
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
Tuesday Feb 26th Topic: After Iraq: American Foreign Policy in 2009 and Beyond.
We’re in Mazatlan this day so only late afternoon sessions.
Topic: After Iraq: American Foreign Policy in 2009 and Beyond. Panelists: Randi, Lionel and Richard Greene
Going to be slightly less comedic today.
Mark gives a brief history – 9-11, Bush and Cheney decide to attack a country that didn’t do 9-11. Since then, disaster - and no discussion of any other foreign policy problems. What are
these that have been obscured but will be on the plate of the next president?
Randi
Why do people from Algeria have French accents, people from south Africa have British accents? Colonization. Conquering.
Did they take the opportunity after 9-11 or did they create it? Project for New Amer. Century “what we need is another Pearl Harbor”.
Hegemony. Stealing the resources we don’t have.
The whole world will have to won over by our next pres. We have to have a plan for China. Economic war going on. Free trade sounds good, but a country owns us! We’re broke.
What are we going to do about China, N. Korea? Russia? Terrorism?
Deregulation – no rules. Banks, etc. The plan was just so bad.
China owns our debt, Saudi Arabia owns our resources, etc. What is the next president to do?
Iraq is now #4 on the list of issues for voters.
Lionel
When 9-11 happened I was there. Horrified that it had happened. Cannot explain how surreal it was. Little things – the smell (like a burned motor) – was everywhere, even if you weren’t downtown. For days there was no horn honking. Things needed downtown – baby booties for the search dogs. Then the next question – did you know anyone? Cab drivers wearing turbans had signs in their cabs “I’m Sikh – tell them I’m not an arab”. I thought – whoever did it, get ‘em. For the first time I looked at the idea of being nuked. Bush took my absolute sense of terror and absolute solidarity the world gave us and squandered it. Then he lied “I know things you don’t know” Saddam has wmd’s. And I thought “do it!” I fell for it. And then I started reading. Learned about neocons (like transfats?).
“the power of nightmares” video. Must SEE!
And then – Pat Buchanan, Robert Novak, etc. is against the war!
Then this president told us we were going to independently prosecute a UN resolution. And I’m thinking – the rules have changed, we have to do what we need to do to get these things.
Muslims in school are seeing pictures of Lindy England who shamed Muslims and a whole generation is seethingly angry at us.
If the towers had burned but had not fallen we would not be in Iraq.
Looking back – read “The Shock Doctrine”. We want to do something about it. Others are so anesthetized - patriotism, get the terrorists, etc.
It will take decades to unravel everything Bush and his cronies have done.
Richard
Randi’s hair looks great.)
Back to Jan of 2001 – 8 months before 9-11. The neocons were so upset that Clinton wouldn’t invade Iraq, they impeached him.
Paul O’Neill said in the very first cabinet meeting Bush said “find me a way to get into Iraq”.
“After Iraq? Is there an “after Iraq?”
Mark Levin (hates liberals) – why? “Because you don’t want to win? You’re chickens, you want to pull out, you don’t want to win.” That presumes there was something to win.
It comes back to Air America – we need to get people to listen to what we are saying to take away the anesthesia of Hannity or Limbaugh. We need to show them how much the Republicans don’t really care about the troops. Reminder of O’Reilly and the troops. We need to challenge the brand – the Republican brand. We need to expose the fallacy of the Republican brand.
What does the next president do?
Leverage in China? On the Olympics? Do we pay money to the Russians to find loose nukes? Do we armtwist the Israelis and Palestinians to force a peace?
Randi – Europeans, etc. used to say ‘we like Americans, hate your president” But after 2004 they said “how could you re-elect that guy? We hate Americans now, too. We need to go out to the world, one by one – volunteer, aid organizations, etc. so the people around the world know it’s not us.
Questions for the candidates – who will your cabinet be? What will you do with the new embassy, etc. in Iraq? No more private companies doing war, business. New laws – no profit-taking.
It’s all about the oil and we have to go forward knowing what we want. No production sharing agreements in Iraq.
We need to make sure the candidates know what we want them to do.
Define “winning” in Iraq”. Richard – to take an equivalent amount of money and put it into solar, etc. so we won’t need their oil.
Much more discussion about impeachment, indictment, talking points for our side (Randi doesn’t want to stoop to their tactics).
Next up – an unscheduled discussion of 9-11 lead by Richard Greene.
Topic: After Iraq: American Foreign Policy in 2009 and Beyond. Panelists: Randi, Lionel and Richard Greene
Going to be slightly less comedic today.
Mark gives a brief history – 9-11, Bush and Cheney decide to attack a country that didn’t do 9-11. Since then, disaster - and no discussion of any other foreign policy problems. What are
these that have been obscured but will be on the plate of the next president?
Randi
Why do people from Algeria have French accents, people from south Africa have British accents? Colonization. Conquering.
Did they take the opportunity after 9-11 or did they create it? Project for New Amer. Century “what we need is another Pearl Harbor”.
Hegemony. Stealing the resources we don’t have.
The whole world will have to won over by our next pres. We have to have a plan for China. Economic war going on. Free trade sounds good, but a country owns us! We’re broke.
What are we going to do about China, N. Korea? Russia? Terrorism?
Deregulation – no rules. Banks, etc. The plan was just so bad.
China owns our debt, Saudi Arabia owns our resources, etc. What is the next president to do?
Iraq is now #4 on the list of issues for voters.
Lionel
When 9-11 happened I was there. Horrified that it had happened. Cannot explain how surreal it was. Little things – the smell (like a burned motor) – was everywhere, even if you weren’t downtown. For days there was no horn honking. Things needed downtown – baby booties for the search dogs. Then the next question – did you know anyone? Cab drivers wearing turbans had signs in their cabs “I’m Sikh – tell them I’m not an arab”. I thought – whoever did it, get ‘em. For the first time I looked at the idea of being nuked. Bush took my absolute sense of terror and absolute solidarity the world gave us and squandered it. Then he lied “I know things you don’t know” Saddam has wmd’s. And I thought “do it!” I fell for it. And then I started reading. Learned about neocons (like transfats?).
“the power of nightmares” video. Must SEE!
And then – Pat Buchanan, Robert Novak, etc. is against the war!
Then this president told us we were going to independently prosecute a UN resolution. And I’m thinking – the rules have changed, we have to do what we need to do to get these things.
Muslims in school are seeing pictures of Lindy England who shamed Muslims and a whole generation is seethingly angry at us.
If the towers had burned but had not fallen we would not be in Iraq.
Looking back – read “The Shock Doctrine”. We want to do something about it. Others are so anesthetized - patriotism, get the terrorists, etc.
It will take decades to unravel everything Bush and his cronies have done.
Richard
Randi’s hair looks great.)
Back to Jan of 2001 – 8 months before 9-11. The neocons were so upset that Clinton wouldn’t invade Iraq, they impeached him.
Paul O’Neill said in the very first cabinet meeting Bush said “find me a way to get into Iraq”.
“After Iraq? Is there an “after Iraq?”
Mark Levin (hates liberals) – why? “Because you don’t want to win? You’re chickens, you want to pull out, you don’t want to win.” That presumes there was something to win.
It comes back to Air America – we need to get people to listen to what we are saying to take away the anesthesia of Hannity or Limbaugh. We need to show them how much the Republicans don’t really care about the troops. Reminder of O’Reilly and the troops. We need to challenge the brand – the Republican brand. We need to expose the fallacy of the Republican brand.
What does the next president do?
Leverage in China? On the Olympics? Do we pay money to the Russians to find loose nukes? Do we armtwist the Israelis and Palestinians to force a peace?
Randi – Europeans, etc. used to say ‘we like Americans, hate your president” But after 2004 they said “how could you re-elect that guy? We hate Americans now, too. We need to go out to the world, one by one – volunteer, aid organizations, etc. so the people around the world know it’s not us.
Questions for the candidates – who will your cabinet be? What will you do with the new embassy, etc. in Iraq? No more private companies doing war, business. New laws – no profit-taking.
It’s all about the oil and we have to go forward knowing what we want. No production sharing agreements in Iraq.
We need to make sure the candidates know what we want them to do.
Define “winning” in Iraq”. Richard – to take an equivalent amount of money and put it into solar, etc. so we won’t need their oil.
Much more discussion about impeachment, indictment, talking points for our side (Randi doesn’t want to stoop to their tactics).
Next up – an unscheduled discussion of 9-11 lead by Richard Greene.
Monday, February 25, 2008
Quick comment
It’s hard to gauge the impression readers may be getting from my blog, so I just want to say – we’re having a BLAST! We wear these ID tags around our neck so we are easily identifiable to other Air Americans so it’s easy to identify each other. We sit with different people from the AA group every night and new friends are being made every day.
I’m originally from Bayside NY and now I live in WA state. Tonight at my table were 2 New Yorkers, one from Bayside! – and 2 others from WA. The organizers couldn’t have known all this and the coincidences are a hoot.
The sessions have all been fabulous. It’s hard to convey all the fun we are having there. The speakers are all very funny, witty and quick. I do wish you could be here to experience it. I hope they post the audio, at least, on the AA website.
See ya tomorrow!
I’m originally from Bayside NY and now I live in WA state. Tonight at my table were 2 New Yorkers, one from Bayside! – and 2 others from WA. The organizers couldn’t have known all this and the coincidences are a hoot.
The sessions have all been fabulous. It’s hard to convey all the fun we are having there. The speakers are all very funny, witty and quick. I do wish you could be here to experience it. I hope they post the audio, at least, on the AA website.
See ya tomorrow!
Monday afternoon-Topic: “Democrats are Funny, Republicans aren’t
Monday Feb 25th – Cabo San Lucas
We were in port today. Took a city tour that was one of the worst I have ever taken and I was sitting in the front right next to the driver. It was made more entertaining because Lionel was with us.
So we have one panel today.
Topic: “Democrats are Funny, Republicans aren’t.
Jon Elliott with Randi and Lionel are the featured panelists today.
Jon Elliott
Thanked Mark and his brother for saving Air America to lots of applause.
Liberal -> liberty -> freedom
Conservative -> condemn -> convict –c> condom ->conjugal -> constipated!
Celebs behind Republicans – Ben Stein, Bo Derek, Ron Silver, Dennis Miller.
What do libs and conservatives
Movies, plays, concerts, watch 60 minutes. We read
Nascar, watch “Survivor”. When they read they read self-help books.
We’ve got Al Franken, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert.
There are Republicans on this boat!
Top 10 questions by Republicans to the captain:
1. If ship sinks will they send the luggage home? (yes,by submarine)
2. Does the crew sleep on the ship? (no, not allowed to sleep).
3. At the reception, are all the Dutch officers from Holland? (Only the ones born there)
4. What religion are those people with the patches behind their ears? (Vulcans)
5. I know the diff between port and starboard, but which is front and back?
6. Is that the same moon we see at home? (No, but the sun is the same)
7. Do I put my luggage out before or after I go to bed (after – we’ll be quiet)
8. What do you do with the ice carvings after they melt? (frozen daiquaris)
9. Is it cable TV we see on board? (only basic)
10. Will this elevator take me to the front of this ship? (do you think this is the Enterprise?)
Lionel
This topic may be more serious than you think. I hate the label “liberal”. I don’t do anything that can be labeled. Why people in arts, poetry, music, film, academia – are all liberals? Why are the most creative people called liberal. The liberal “elite”. What do despots do first – get rid of the smart people – the liberals! People ask: Why doesn’t liberal radio work? NOT TRUE. We see the big picture.
Think of wizbangs like Dennis Miller. His career is tanking. He became a conservative comedian.
Entertainers of conservative people: John Wayne, Ronald Reagan, Bruce Willis, Bo Derek. James Woods, Brittney Spears, Chuck Norris, John Voight. Rudy guiliani – question for him – when you say you didn’t know your first wife was your cousin… Conservatives say “I don’t get it”. They believe in Jesus. Ask them this: Which country would Jesus bomb? We get it. They don’t. Ronald Reagan used “Born in the USA” the anthem of lost hope. Didn’t GET it!!
If you want to see where the country is going, watch country music. Willie Nelson! Merle Haggard! When you’ve lost Merle you’ve lost the country.
Randi
They are not observant! We’re creative, free thinkers, we like each other. They just want to tell us the way it “ought to “ be, the way they want it to be. All black and white. Evil and good. They are inhibited. We see Larry Craig and say “great for the show today”. They’re having meetings.
They’re so afraid to be themselves and we just want to be ourselves. The conservatives are in the Marianas making sure the sex trade remains legal and here I am giving it away!
Mark
Liberal = tolerant, more open-minded. Frost wrote a liberal is so open-minded he won’t take his own side.
Conservatives have a view that life is nasty and short.
Guiliani – either you love him or he hates you. He left the race to spend more time with 9-11. Like all good New Yorkers, he went to Florida to die.
Questions and comments:
Republicans are only funny inadvertently. And they don’t get it.
Reminder of Colbert’s press club stuff.
A retired Christian pastor says not all Christians are idiots.
Colbert – truth has a liberal bias.
How to handle the “Dems can’t protect us” with humor. Mark reminded us of Biden’s comment about Guiilian- “every sentence has a noun a verb and 9-11”
McCain – “bomb,bomb,bomb Iran” Mark says we say things we wish we could unsay – Randi says that we DO unsay it. We do apologize. Lionel says it’s unfortunate that they think it’s funny! It’s a symptom of a pathology.
We were in port today. Took a city tour that was one of the worst I have ever taken and I was sitting in the front right next to the driver. It was made more entertaining because Lionel was with us.
So we have one panel today.
Topic: “Democrats are Funny, Republicans aren’t.
Jon Elliott with Randi and Lionel are the featured panelists today.
Jon Elliott
Thanked Mark and his brother for saving Air America to lots of applause.
Liberal -> liberty -> freedom
Conservative -> condemn -> convict –c> condom ->conjugal -> constipated!
Celebs behind Republicans – Ben Stein, Bo Derek, Ron Silver, Dennis Miller.
What do libs and conservatives
Movies, plays, concerts, watch 60 minutes. We read
Nascar, watch “Survivor”. When they read they read self-help books.
We’ve got Al Franken, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert.
There are Republicans on this boat!
Top 10 questions by Republicans to the captain:
1. If ship sinks will they send the luggage home? (yes,by submarine)
2. Does the crew sleep on the ship? (no, not allowed to sleep).
3. At the reception, are all the Dutch officers from Holland? (Only the ones born there)
4. What religion are those people with the patches behind their ears? (Vulcans)
5. I know the diff between port and starboard, but which is front and back?
6. Is that the same moon we see at home? (No, but the sun is the same)
7. Do I put my luggage out before or after I go to bed (after – we’ll be quiet)
8. What do you do with the ice carvings after they melt? (frozen daiquaris)
9. Is it cable TV we see on board? (only basic)
10. Will this elevator take me to the front of this ship? (do you think this is the Enterprise?)
Lionel
This topic may be more serious than you think. I hate the label “liberal”. I don’t do anything that can be labeled. Why people in arts, poetry, music, film, academia – are all liberals? Why are the most creative people called liberal. The liberal “elite”. What do despots do first – get rid of the smart people – the liberals! People ask: Why doesn’t liberal radio work? NOT TRUE. We see the big picture.
Think of wizbangs like Dennis Miller. His career is tanking. He became a conservative comedian.
Entertainers of conservative people: John Wayne, Ronald Reagan, Bruce Willis, Bo Derek. James Woods, Brittney Spears, Chuck Norris, John Voight. Rudy guiliani – question for him – when you say you didn’t know your first wife was your cousin… Conservatives say “I don’t get it”. They believe in Jesus. Ask them this: Which country would Jesus bomb? We get it. They don’t. Ronald Reagan used “Born in the USA” the anthem of lost hope. Didn’t GET it!!
If you want to see where the country is going, watch country music. Willie Nelson! Merle Haggard! When you’ve lost Merle you’ve lost the country.
Randi
They are not observant! We’re creative, free thinkers, we like each other. They just want to tell us the way it “ought to “ be, the way they want it to be. All black and white. Evil and good. They are inhibited. We see Larry Craig and say “great for the show today”. They’re having meetings.
They’re so afraid to be themselves and we just want to be ourselves. The conservatives are in the Marianas making sure the sex trade remains legal and here I am giving it away!
Mark
Liberal = tolerant, more open-minded. Frost wrote a liberal is so open-minded he won’t take his own side.
Conservatives have a view that life is nasty and short.
Guiliani – either you love him or he hates you. He left the race to spend more time with 9-11. Like all good New Yorkers, he went to Florida to die.
Questions and comments:
Republicans are only funny inadvertently. And they don’t get it.
Reminder of Colbert’s press club stuff.
A retired Christian pastor says not all Christians are idiots.
Colbert – truth has a liberal bias.
How to handle the “Dems can’t protect us” with humor. Mark reminded us of Biden’s comment about Guiilian- “every sentence has a noun a verb and 9-11”
McCain – “bomb,bomb,bomb Iran” Mark says we say things we wish we could unsay – Randi says that we DO unsay it. We do apologize. Lionel says it’s unfortunate that they think it’s funny! It’s a symptom of a pathology.
Sunday, February 24, 2008
photos
I've been unable to upload pictures to this blogspace. But I managed to post a few on my personal Windows Live space. So check here for pictures. I'll just add to this album each day, so check back.
Air America Cruise Photos
Air America Cruise Photos
Topic: The Air American “Caucus”: which Democrat will be the Strongest this Fall?”
Panelists: Richard Greene with Lionel and Randi
Mark talks about Ralph Nader.
Mark was a Nader raider for 10 years. He thinks Ralph would say he’s running because Obama and Hillary drink from the same trough. Nader was on “The Nation” cruise. Everyone was hostile to start, but then they were charmed by his reasoning. It’s important that 3rd parties change the agenda of America and so should he.
Lionel “advocates” for Hillary.
She’s against diarrhea. (same theme from this morning! :-))
Does not have charisma. She gets on Lionel’s nerve. BUT she’s been slammed for her clothes, her hair, Bill, etc. She is tough as nails. She’s a bitch and we need one. She is not about change. She believes in evolution, she has a mandatory health care plan. Barack’s is not mandatory. Biggest problem is she voted for the authorization of the war. Remember the zeitgeist at the time (audience boos!!). But she doesn’t have the guts to say “I made a mistake”. She’s for stem cell research funding. We have a scary world right now. You do get 2 for the price of one, and right now, that’s a GOOD thing.
Richard speaks for Obama
We are despised around the world. The only person who can turn that around is Obama. Preactively, proactively he will meet with our enemies.
Randi speaks for the undecided
2 issues – voter turnout. Election integrity.
Bottom of the ticket – coattails.
Group discussion of why pro Hillary, then pro-Obama. Then people got up and spoke about why NOT Obama or why NOT Hillary. Lots of heated discussion. Mark then asked who changed their minds. Only one did, as far as I could see. His comment was that he was switching from Barack to Hillary because of the millions of right-wing zealots who passed out 60 million brochures in past elections. Elect Hillary, he said, so we can drive those folks nuts! And that’s the way it is.
Mark talks about Ralph Nader.
Mark was a Nader raider for 10 years. He thinks Ralph would say he’s running because Obama and Hillary drink from the same trough. Nader was on “The Nation” cruise. Everyone was hostile to start, but then they were charmed by his reasoning. It’s important that 3rd parties change the agenda of America and so should he.
Lionel “advocates” for Hillary.
She’s against diarrhea. (same theme from this morning! :-))
Does not have charisma. She gets on Lionel’s nerve. BUT she’s been slammed for her clothes, her hair, Bill, etc. She is tough as nails. She’s a bitch and we need one. She is not about change. She believes in evolution, she has a mandatory health care plan. Barack’s is not mandatory. Biggest problem is she voted for the authorization of the war. Remember the zeitgeist at the time (audience boos!!). But she doesn’t have the guts to say “I made a mistake”. She’s for stem cell research funding. We have a scary world right now. You do get 2 for the price of one, and right now, that’s a GOOD thing.
Richard speaks for Obama
We are despised around the world. The only person who can turn that around is Obama. Preactively, proactively he will meet with our enemies.
Randi speaks for the undecided
2 issues – voter turnout. Election integrity.
Bottom of the ticket – coattails.
Group discussion of why pro Hillary, then pro-Obama. Then people got up and spoke about why NOT Obama or why NOT Hillary. Lots of heated discussion. Mark then asked who changed their minds. Only one did, as far as I could see. His comment was that he was switching from Barack to Hillary because of the millions of right-wing zealots who passed out 60 million brochures in past elections. Elect Hillary, he said, so we can drive those folks nuts! And that’s the way it is.
Session Topic: Building our own progressive political future
Panelists: Jim Hightower with Jon Elliott and Richard Greene
We were to sit in sections on the basis of who we’re voting for – Clinton, Obama and other. After discussion we can change our seats for the next session.
Mark talks about how the conservatives went back to organize at the grass roots level and came back to win Congress.
Introduces Jon and Richard.
Jim’s talk
He was damn near a lawyer – spent a week in law school once. Trial lawyers steal from the rich and give approx. half to the poor. ;-)
We don’t have to create a progressive movement. It is out there already. Not what you hear from the pundits or the media. Bumper sticker he saw in Austin TX a few years ago “Where are we going and what am I doing in this hand basket?” J People know we’re headed in the wrong direction. Hand basket is more than what Bush and Buckshot have done over the past 7 years. 90% of us have lost income over the past 30 years. (“tinkle down economics”). Issue is not jobs (slaves had jobs, after all – applause!). The issue is WAGES! People are looking to restore the middle class.
77% want US out of Iraq – 66% of military families disapprove of how Bush has handled Iraq.
76% say too much power in the hands of corporations.
69% want more fuel concentration.
68% say labor unions are necessary today.
Oregon story about how people got swing districts to go Dem to change the Oregon Senate back to Dem control (yes!). These were ordinary kids who took some action. Same kind of story with the “Fighting BobFest” in Wisconsin.
People are taking action, not just in polls. The Obama phenomenon. So many people are excited, especially young people. People are shouting louder than ever – we want change!
Progressive values: Equal opportunity, Economic Fairness
Don’t be kneejerk as to who your allies might be. Like evangelicals. Not the liberals, the conservatives. They are now teamed up with Nobel laureates on the issue of global warming. They don’t want to call it environmental, they call it creation issues, but so what?
All this will take time. Won’t win on the first try. Early bird may get the worm, but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese. (Willie Nelson)
Jon Elliot
There are more progressives than conservatives in this country. Don’t we want peace and prosperity and a living wage? Not left or right issues, these are right and wrong issues.
We have all different groups – labor, gays, women, minorities. We need to bring everyone together. Yea for John Dean with his 50-state strategy. That’s why “What’s the Matter with Kansas?” Kansas turned out thousands and thousands of voters recently.
Labor unions are what keeps the middle class in existence in this country.
He’s for Obama.
Richard
Air America is doing important work because until and unless we have a balanced press we can’t have a democracy.
Very strong for public financing of elections. We have to get people educated to have a truly progressive country.
Motto of LA station: “Progressive – the new mainstream”. That’s great!
Listed poll results that indicate that this is the case. Anti-war, pro-Constitution, they care about civil rights, etc. Lots of people still think something funny happened on 9/11 and we need a new, INDEPENDENT investigation of what happened.
Mark
Polls show people really want the things progressives propose because “laissez” isn’t always “faire”.
Now we can use the internet to reach out to people – cost effective, quicker. Yes!
How to organize. We need issue discipline. Not every group can demand that their issues get addressed at every rally, etc.
Questions
Discussion spanned Nader (who just announced this morning) to 9/11 to public funding of elections, etc. fairness, security… I see someone is videotaping. I hope it isn’t just a personal camera!
We were to sit in sections on the basis of who we’re voting for – Clinton, Obama and other. After discussion we can change our seats for the next session.
Mark talks about how the conservatives went back to organize at the grass roots level and came back to win Congress.
Introduces Jon and Richard.
Jim’s talk
He was damn near a lawyer – spent a week in law school once. Trial lawyers steal from the rich and give approx. half to the poor. ;-)
We don’t have to create a progressive movement. It is out there already. Not what you hear from the pundits or the media. Bumper sticker he saw in Austin TX a few years ago “Where are we going and what am I doing in this hand basket?” J People know we’re headed in the wrong direction. Hand basket is more than what Bush and Buckshot have done over the past 7 years. 90% of us have lost income over the past 30 years. (“tinkle down economics”). Issue is not jobs (slaves had jobs, after all – applause!). The issue is WAGES! People are looking to restore the middle class.
77% want US out of Iraq – 66% of military families disapprove of how Bush has handled Iraq.
76% say too much power in the hands of corporations.
69% want more fuel concentration.
68% say labor unions are necessary today.
Oregon story about how people got swing districts to go Dem to change the Oregon Senate back to Dem control (yes!). These were ordinary kids who took some action. Same kind of story with the “Fighting BobFest” in Wisconsin.
People are taking action, not just in polls. The Obama phenomenon. So many people are excited, especially young people. People are shouting louder than ever – we want change!
Progressive values: Equal opportunity, Economic Fairness
Don’t be kneejerk as to who your allies might be. Like evangelicals. Not the liberals, the conservatives. They are now teamed up with Nobel laureates on the issue of global warming. They don’t want to call it environmental, they call it creation issues, but so what?
All this will take time. Won’t win on the first try. Early bird may get the worm, but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese. (Willie Nelson)
Jon Elliot
There are more progressives than conservatives in this country. Don’t we want peace and prosperity and a living wage? Not left or right issues, these are right and wrong issues.
We have all different groups – labor, gays, women, minorities. We need to bring everyone together. Yea for John Dean with his 50-state strategy. That’s why “What’s the Matter with Kansas?” Kansas turned out thousands and thousands of voters recently.
Labor unions are what keeps the middle class in existence in this country.
He’s for Obama.
Richard
Air America is doing important work because until and unless we have a balanced press we can’t have a democracy.
Very strong for public financing of elections. We have to get people educated to have a truly progressive country.
Motto of LA station: “Progressive – the new mainstream”. That’s great!
Listed poll results that indicate that this is the case. Anti-war, pro-Constitution, they care about civil rights, etc. Lots of people still think something funny happened on 9/11 and we need a new, INDEPENDENT investigation of what happened.
Mark
Polls show people really want the things progressives propose because “laissez” isn’t always “faire”.
Now we can use the internet to reach out to people – cost effective, quicker. Yes!
How to organize. We need issue discipline. Not every group can demand that their issues get addressed at every rally, etc.
Questions
Discussion spanned Nader (who just announced this morning) to 9/11 to public funding of elections, etc. fairness, security… I see someone is videotaping. I hope it isn’t just a personal camera!
First session - Wither our Democracy?
Panel session: Topic: Wither our Democracy? Two Views on Protecting our Civil Liberties
Moderator: Mark Green (moderating all events)
Panelists: Lionel with Jim Hightower
It's too hard to write everything down. Hopefully they are recording these sessions for podcasts. Here are some notes as I went along:
Mark Green is funny. He has introduced himself as Captain America. J This session is “off the record” and suggests using terms like “pimped out” and “lynched” are ok here. ;-)
Lionel is leading this session. Starts off with some references to digestive system issues. ;-) Running gag throughout..
He’s talking in his own inimitable way about our Constitution and how it’s been destroyed, especially with executive signing statements. Why didn’t Bush veto anything? Ah, signing statements! He compares them to a marriage vow that has “except if she gets fat” implied.
When the Ann Coulters of this world suggest “there’s nothing in the Constitution that says… (whatever), it doesn’t mean we have to endorse it.
Lionel loves the applause after he says “the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional”. Wishes they hadn’t gotten an atheist to challenge the school’s use of it. He wants the government OUT of the religion world. One way or the other. No teacher should say “there is a God” OR “there is no God”.
Suggests that the insistence of putting religion (God) as a government force gives ammunition to those who agree, but happen to call God “Allah”.
2nd Amendment – doesn’t mean you have the right to an ouzi. The gun-crazy people (like AC, the counterfeit conservative) and Michelle Malkin (the Phillipiness??) are constitutional experts, of course.
This is not a liberal or conservative case. It’s a rules case.
14th Amendment – equal protection clause – does not allow separate treatment for gays (cannot get married) simply because it’s not – traditional. Mentions the laws. That got changed.
The Constitution is OURS.
Jim Hightower
Bush won’t change – where the hell are the Democrats? Weaker than Canadian hot sauce on all the issues at hand. (He says he got an email from one of his listeners saying he hoped Bush would get caught smoking pot, because then Congress would legalize pot).
Dems in Congress are cowering. Mark Twain “loyalty to the government when it deserves it”.
Mark - Jim was too kind when he called this an “Imperial Presidency”. It’s far more radical – when Bush took the oath to “execute” the Constitution, he took that word literally.
Discussed torture. Illegal and immoral and if we do it, they do it.
FISA – after Nixon did it, Congress said let’s stop it. But there are legitimate reasons – so the Fisa court was created. 5000 requests and only 10 rejected. But inconvenient for Bush. When disclosed, prosecute the NYTimes! Bush said law was “out of date”. This, from an administration that constantly uses “founding fathers” to explain what they do, but FISA is “out of date”.
Record of this administration – twice the SC has ruled against them. But when they don't like the laws, they just don't enforce and business takes notice. Lack of enforcement – SEC, etc.
Golden rule – he who has the gold, rules.
Broadcast licenses – you must give equal access to bonafide candidates. Yeah Mark!
Private “always good”, public “always bad” – ugh!
Questions:
Lionel – free thought vs free speech?
All – comments on “Cheney administration”. What recourse? International court of law? Jim supported impeaching Cheney. Congress has the “inherent contempt” power. Mark – too many things to add here.
Lots of talk about Nancy Pelosi – more to come this afternoon.
Mark is great at giving insights into the politics of things, including Pelosi, Bloomberg, Nader and Schumer.
One question about getting Air America to motivate political activity. Mark gave a good answer about the raison d'être of Air America. He says that AA is not a political party and it’s not AA’s job to incite the masses to activity. He also commented that people just don’t do marches and protests anymore the way they did in the ‘60s and ‘70s. This activity is found on the internet, in “signing” petitions online, etc. In my view AA provides an outlet for progressive discussion, a way to hear the correct side of issues. By presenting those that do wish to motivate us to action, it helps many of our causes.
Ran out of time.
Really great session.
Moderator: Mark Green (moderating all events)
Panelists: Lionel with Jim Hightower
It's too hard to write everything down. Hopefully they are recording these sessions for podcasts. Here are some notes as I went along:
Mark Green is funny. He has introduced himself as Captain America. J This session is “off the record” and suggests using terms like “pimped out” and “lynched” are ok here. ;-)
Lionel is leading this session. Starts off with some references to digestive system issues. ;-) Running gag throughout..
He’s talking in his own inimitable way about our Constitution and how it’s been destroyed, especially with executive signing statements. Why didn’t Bush veto anything? Ah, signing statements! He compares them to a marriage vow that has “except if she gets fat” implied.
When the Ann Coulters of this world suggest “there’s nothing in the Constitution that says… (whatever), it doesn’t mean we have to endorse it.
Lionel loves the applause after he says “the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional”. Wishes they hadn’t gotten an atheist to challenge the school’s use of it. He wants the government OUT of the religion world. One way or the other. No teacher should say “there is a God” OR “there is no God”.
Suggests that the insistence of putting religion (God) as a government force gives ammunition to those who agree, but happen to call God “Allah”.
2nd Amendment – doesn’t mean you have the right to an ouzi. The gun-crazy people (like AC, the counterfeit conservative) and Michelle Malkin (the Phillipiness??) are constitutional experts, of course.
This is not a liberal or conservative case. It’s a rules case.
14th Amendment – equal protection clause – does not allow separate treatment for gays (cannot get married) simply because it’s not – traditional. Mentions the laws. That got changed.
The Constitution is OURS.
Jim Hightower
Bush won’t change – where the hell are the Democrats? Weaker than Canadian hot sauce on all the issues at hand. (He says he got an email from one of his listeners saying he hoped Bush would get caught smoking pot, because then Congress would legalize pot).
Dems in Congress are cowering. Mark Twain “loyalty to the government when it deserves it”.
Mark - Jim was too kind when he called this an “Imperial Presidency”. It’s far more radical – when Bush took the oath to “execute” the Constitution, he took that word literally.
Discussed torture. Illegal and immoral and if we do it, they do it.
FISA – after Nixon did it, Congress said let’s stop it. But there are legitimate reasons – so the Fisa court was created. 5000 requests and only 10 rejected. But inconvenient for Bush. When disclosed, prosecute the NYTimes! Bush said law was “out of date”. This, from an administration that constantly uses “founding fathers” to explain what they do, but FISA is “out of date”.
Record of this administration – twice the SC has ruled against them. But when they don't like the laws, they just don't enforce and business takes notice. Lack of enforcement – SEC, etc.
Golden rule – he who has the gold, rules.
Broadcast licenses – you must give equal access to bonafide candidates. Yeah Mark!
Private “always good”, public “always bad” – ugh!
Questions:
Lionel – free thought vs free speech?
All – comments on “Cheney administration”. What recourse? International court of law? Jim supported impeaching Cheney. Congress has the “inherent contempt” power. Mark – too many things to add here.
Lots of talk about Nancy Pelosi – more to come this afternoon.
Mark is great at giving insights into the politics of things, including Pelosi, Bloomberg, Nader and Schumer.
One question about getting Air America to motivate political activity. Mark gave a good answer about the raison d'être of Air America. He says that AA is not a political party and it’s not AA’s job to incite the masses to activity. He also commented that people just don’t do marches and protests anymore the way they did in the ‘60s and ‘70s. This activity is found on the internet, in “signing” petitions online, etc. In my view AA provides an outlet for progressive discussion, a way to hear the correct side of issues. By presenting those that do wish to motivate us to action, it helps many of our causes.
Ran out of time.
Really great session.
Schedule of panels
Feb 24th 9:00 am-10:30 am
Panel session:
Topic: Wither our Democracy? Two Views on Protecting our Civil Liberties
Moderator: Mark Green (moderating all events)
Panelists: Lionel with Jim Hightower
2:30-3:45 pm Panel Session
Topic: Building our own progressive political future
Panelists: Jim Hightower with Jon Elliott and Richard Greene
4:00-5:15pm
Topic: The Air American “Caucus”: which Democrat will be the Strongest this Fall?”
Panelists: Richard Greene with Lionel and Randi Rhodes
5:30 – 7:00pm 0ptional sessions:
Topic: The Long View of Owning Gold and Precious metals.
Speaker: Craig Griffin (ITM)
Monday Feb 25th – Cabo San Lucas
There’s only one panel (4:30-6:00) because we will be in Cabo for the day.
Topic: Democrats are Funny, Republicans aren’t.
Jon Elliott with Randi and Lionel will be the featured panelists Monday.
Tuesday Feb 26th
We’re in Mazatlan this day but we get one panel at 4:00 0m.
Topic: After Iraq: American Foreign Policy in 2009 and Beyond.
Panelists: Randi, Lionel and Richard Greene
Wednesday Feb 27th Puerto Vallarta
After being in port all day we’ll be watching a replay of the MSNBC debate.
No specific panelists listed.
Thursday Feb 28th – at sea
9:00-11:30 am -
Topic: The Bush Economy and the Middle Class
Today we get to see Paul Krugman with Thom Hartmann and Marc Sussman in the first session.
2:30 – 3:45pm
Topic: How the Media Cover Politics and How Politicians Manipulate the Media.
Panelists: Thom with Jon Elliott, Rachel Maddow and Lionel.
4:00-5:15pm
Topic: How to Beat John McCain – A Strategy Session.
Panelists: Rachel with Thom, Lionel and Randi.
5:30 – 6:30 –
Topic: Our Dysfunctional Financial and Health Care Systems.
Panelists: Marc Sussman and Paul Krugman
Friday Feb 29th – at sea
1:30-3:30 pm – Closing session
Topic: What Makes a Good Talk Radio show? You Tell Us?
Panelists: Randi, Rachel, Lionel, Thom, Jon, Richard and Marc.
Panel session:
Topic: Wither our Democracy? Two Views on Protecting our Civil Liberties
Moderator: Mark Green (moderating all events)
Panelists: Lionel with Jim Hightower
2:30-3:45 pm Panel Session
Topic: Building our own progressive political future
Panelists: Jim Hightower with Jon Elliott and Richard Greene
4:00-5:15pm
Topic: The Air American “Caucus”: which Democrat will be the Strongest this Fall?”
Panelists: Richard Greene with Lionel and Randi Rhodes
5:30 – 7:00pm 0ptional sessions:
Topic: The Long View of Owning Gold and Precious metals.
Speaker: Craig Griffin (ITM)
Monday Feb 25th – Cabo San Lucas
There’s only one panel (4:30-6:00) because we will be in Cabo for the day.
Topic: Democrats are Funny, Republicans aren’t.
Jon Elliott with Randi and Lionel will be the featured panelists Monday.
Tuesday Feb 26th
We’re in Mazatlan this day but we get one panel at 4:00 0m.
Topic: After Iraq: American Foreign Policy in 2009 and Beyond.
Panelists: Randi, Lionel and Richard Greene
Wednesday Feb 27th Puerto Vallarta
After being in port all day we’ll be watching a replay of the MSNBC debate.
No specific panelists listed.
Thursday Feb 28th – at sea
9:00-11:30 am -
Topic: The Bush Economy and the Middle Class
Today we get to see Paul Krugman with Thom Hartmann and Marc Sussman in the first session.
2:30 – 3:45pm
Topic: How the Media Cover Politics and How Politicians Manipulate the Media.
Panelists: Thom with Jon Elliott, Rachel Maddow and Lionel.
4:00-5:15pm
Topic: How to Beat John McCain – A Strategy Session.
Panelists: Rachel with Thom, Lionel and Randi.
5:30 – 6:30 –
Topic: Our Dysfunctional Financial and Health Care Systems.
Panelists: Marc Sussman and Paul Krugman
Friday Feb 29th – at sea
1:30-3:30 pm – Closing session
Topic: What Makes a Good Talk Radio show? You Tell Us?
Panelists: Randi, Rachel, Lionel, Thom, Jon, Richard and Marc.
Welcome Cocktail party
We had the place to ourselves – all 400 of us! Drinks (champagne, wine, and beer) and hors d’oeuvres were plentiful and very good. People came from all over the world – literally! There is a guy here from New Zealand who listens on satellite radio who felt he just had to be here. He felt that the results of our election this year will affect him almost as much as it affects us. Isn’t that amazing? Needless to say a lot of the conversation was political in nature, although not all of it. I met someone who went to my high school (a long time ago and across the country). And there are a few people who live within 2 miles of where I do. I saw people of all ages, although by the nature of the kind of trip this is, I think it skewed older.
Mark Green gave greetings from Air America. He’s a funny guy. He talked about the schedule of events (see next message for the seminar listings).
I'm having trouble uploading pictures. Will post when I can.
Mark Green gave greetings from Air America. He’s a funny guy. He talked about the schedule of events (see next message for the seminar listings).
I'm having trouble uploading pictures. Will post when I can.
Saturday, February 23, 2008
First Day
Quick review of things so far:
Arrived at San Diego airport early. Everything has gone smoothly. Holland America (HA) took my bags and I just had to wait for the bus to the pier. Have already met some very nice folks also connected to the Air America (AA) group on the ship. Almost 400!
The ship (Oosterdam) is huge, of course. And gorgeous. It's got all the modern stuff you'd expect for a new ship. Here's info on it, if you're interested.
The Oosterdam
Lunch was wonderful - buffet with almost everything you could think of to eat for lunch. Sat with 3 Air Americans. Talked politics, of course. It's so nice to be surrounded by like-minded people.
Found the check in for AA. It's so nice that they are planning that everyone will get a chance to have lunch with the speakers at some point. Dinners will find the speakers available, too, but we don't know yet who will be here when.
I've already met Randi Rhodes. She is so nice!
We have the speaker schedule but I forgot to bring it with me. As soon as I can I'll post it here.
If you have any questions for the speakers, let me know. I can probably pass them along to someone who will see that they get them.
Arrived at San Diego airport early. Everything has gone smoothly. Holland America (HA) took my bags and I just had to wait for the bus to the pier. Have already met some very nice folks also connected to the Air America (AA) group on the ship. Almost 400!
The ship (Oosterdam) is huge, of course. And gorgeous. It's got all the modern stuff you'd expect for a new ship. Here's info on it, if you're interested.
The Oosterdam
Lunch was wonderful - buffet with almost everything you could think of to eat for lunch. Sat with 3 Air Americans. Talked politics, of course. It's so nice to be surrounded by like-minded people.
Found the check in for AA. It's so nice that they are planning that everyone will get a chance to have lunch with the speakers at some point. Dinners will find the speakers available, too, but we don't know yet who will be here when.
I've already met Randi Rhodes. She is so nice!
We have the speaker schedule but I forgot to bring it with me. As soon as I can I'll post it here.
If you have any questions for the speakers, let me know. I can probably pass them along to someone who will see that they get them.
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